Whats with this protesting European Patenting Stuff?

[billy_gates]

quote:Originally posted by Faust:
freeloading communist hippy.

hmmm.. wrong end of the spectrum, you should of said fasciest nazi

 

quote:I see now that protesting anything less than once a week isnt real protesting and is thus allowable by lord Jeffberg.

I am not protestin.  I am not trying to change anything, its just fun to talk with people with similar interests (and dis interests)

 

quote:Face it dude the only reason you're upset is because two minutes of your "valuable" time got wasted by someone who wanted you to think.

your right, i am upset because people are wasting my time.  I hate that.  However when I went to his site and saw the protest I didn't read about it, cus I don't care.  He may have wanted me to think and maybe if it applied to me I would have read further and decided how to continue but shutting down one of my sites would not be how I would have done it.

 

quote:Ghandi tried to DESTROY british occupation, thats violent and must be disallowed. South Africans tried to violently end aparteid and DESTROY it, what violent fuckers we shoulda put down that little rebellion huh?

The people ghandi  was protesting were hurting and killing them?  What has Microsoft ever done to you?  Made you buy shitty software.  Ghandi and Martin Luther (just 2 examples) were being beaten and killed.  Microsoft is not doing anything nearly as serious as this to you.  And neither will EU software patents.  Being killed seems like a good reason to have a very organised, large, and peaceful protest.

 

quote:Yeah we get violent cops too. And hey, when it goes bad guess who gets blamed? Certainly not the cops. At some protests towards the end of 2001 (s11 protests - completely unrelated to the NY tragedy cos it hadnt happened yet) cops rode horses into the crowd. What gets put on the TV? "Violent protestors attack police horses." Of course horses will balk you dumb fucks, they dont exactly like trampling living people...

do u think martin luther was never beaten by violent cops?  Yet they still didn't get violent.  They knew if they got violent then their violence is the only thing the media would show.  Martin and Ghandi knew this and knew the solution?  Why don't current protestors know this and know the solution?

 

quote:
No the correct response was tax the rich to all buggery and then let people have a decent health care system.

Get your own damn medical insurance.  I have my own.  Stop taking money from people who deserve it and giving to people who don't.  Who are you to decide that people that are smart and work hard get to lose their money and the people without jobs who will never get one get the money?

 

quote:Who decides who is allowed to protest anyway? You? You think normal protestors are bad and Gandhi is allowable, but how do you know before hand what protests to ban? The US was founded on protest and letting the opressed have a chance - it's a pity a few misguided morons have decided to think that protesting what you think is wrong a dirty thing.

Ghandi had a reason to protest.  His people were being killed every day for no reason.  The Chinese people have a right to protest their blatand human rights violations.  How can you even sit there and say that your EU Patent protest even COMPARES to Ghandis and Martin Luthers protests.  They were protesting their right to live.  You are just whining about how you now have to think of your own ideas for software instead of using someone elses.
I do think people have a right to protest.  But the protest does not have to be started before you will know if it is successfull or not.  I just ask that before people protest that first they got a lot of people. Second they vow to no violence no matter what.  They have the dedication to hold on for YEARS, not days.  And they don't go screaming and yelling or blocking traffic or vomiting on entrances to buildings.  That they just be a group of people who walk around outside of the place they are protesting.  Also they should tell local authorities before doing a protest.
Do you not think those are fair conditions for protesting.

Cus truthfully its not the good protestors that make prosting look bad.  It is the bad protestors who make protesting look bad.  When you block city traffic, and fucking vomit on building entrances so people can't get in.  That is what makes protesting look bad.  And because there are a greater number of bad protests to good ones, I look down on protesting as an immature way of expressing your opinion.


Now I am going to back down from this fight.  I don't want to anger any more people.  I like hanging around here and casually talking about shit.  Most of the stuff I read here I don't take seriously.  I don't go and tell me friends how evil certain people are.  I don't care.  I just like socialising with random people from all over the world.

P.S. don't diss America, its not cool.  I don't diss the country your from (please don't be from canada).  I'm just kidding, there is nothing wrong with canada. I just chose to stay in America and not move.  I will tell you though.  If I did leave America I would go to switzerland.  But every where else has too high of taxes, so I doubt I will be moving.
but seriously don't make fun of someone elses home country.  Thats just a way to make a bullshit flame war.

I think I am done. completely,
we will just have to agree to disagree.

[Calum]

quote:Originally posted by jeffberg: Mac Capitalist:
A couple of the websites I visit.  mainly www.xboxmediaplayer.de have gone into some sort of protes thing against what the EU is trying to do about software patents or something.

My question is why are the people shutting down their sites to protest, why can't they just vote like normal people.  They can also stop investing money in patented software.  But stop fucking protesting you long haired tree hugging liberal hippies!
God damn it, I don't like Protestors.  They don't get anything done, and their protests almost always turn out violent and dangerous.

I am a capitalist.  When it comes to business there is only one way to vote.  With your wallet.  Now this mixes politics with business.  So now there are 2 ways to vote.  A ballot (I would assume contacting your representative, although not sure how people in europe are represented) and with your wallet. I highly doubt protesting it going to do anything.  And it esecially isn't when the people that protest have shut down the sites that the businesses want them to close cus they give free stuff away.

Just my 2c

christ you are a fuckass.
however i'm not a liberal myself, in fact i say the best way to deal with fuckasses like this is a bullet.

that's the difference between liberalism and my idea of socialism.

now, jeffberg, if you really do give a shit about what this patent thing is all about (although your words make me think this whole topic is simply an ego boost for you to mouth off in about how everybody else is a pinko and you're great), you can read this, and this one too. There are some more articles about it on that site also, if you feel you don't have time to read those then shut the fuck up and sit down, because the topic of this thread is after all the EU patents situation, and you damn well better get your facts straight before you mouth off, you fucking yank.

edit: and fucking actually READ the first one, moron (yes i think you need to be told twice) - it explains why your comments about "thinking up your own ideas" are worthy of a one and a half year old tortoise.

[ September 03, 2003: Message edited by: Calum ]

[flap]

quote:christ you are a fuckass.
however i'm not a liberal myself, in fact i say the best way to deal with fuckasses like this is a bullet.

that's the difference between liberalism and my idea of socialism.

Hear hear.

[suselinux]

If patents become ANY more intrusive, the western world is going to turn into a Corperate, facist state.

Heil Bill, mine Furer!

Actually that's a good analogy, because, it's been said, Gemany's best "economic" time was during Hitlers leadership.

[ September 03, 2003: Message edited by: suselinux ]

[Laukev7]

It's already done. It's been a few years since USA went from capitalism to defacto corporatism.

[Doctor V]

Gah, I don't even know where to start to respond to this one.

First, protesting is not limited to liberals.  I remember seeing people on the news protesting against a recount in florida a few years ago.  Marching, holding signs and all.  Your steroetyping all protesters as "long haired tree hugging liberal hippies" is wrong.  And I would expect any sensible person, liberal or conservative to be against American style patents.  They make life suck more than it has to for me, for you jeffburg, for laborers andfor business owners alike.  The only people who would support these idotic patents are very large corporations who want to stifle competition, and for the lawyers who make oodles from IP lawsuits these patents cause.

You claim to be a capitalist, well I think you should read up on some Adam smith and learn more about capitalism.  There are good and bad points of capitalism.  And to be a capitalist you should understand what they are, what makes capitalism work and what ruins is.  Competition drives capitalism, and anything that stifles competition stifles capitalism too.  Society is based on business, and businesses exist for the benefit of society.

When things turn around, and society is made to serve the businesses, competition is crushed in courts by expensive lawyers, and the right to 'innovate' is bought, sold, traded and fought over, capitalism fails.  When new business are crushed even before they begin because one group owns a business method, the principals upon which capitalism was founded is crushed as well.

And Jeffburg, let me make a suggestion.  If you really love America, instead of blindly following along with whatever America's current leaders serve to you as 'patriotism' and 'American', you take a really good look at what is happening in America today from a broad perspective, and admit to yourself the reality that today America is in the shitter and the whirlpool is spiraling down down down.  And from there, work towards getting America back in the right direction again.

V

[Laukev7]

Exactly what I think, I couldn't have said it better than you, Doctor V.

I am a bit confused about the patent thing, though. Are patents like that everywhere, or only in the United States? As I said, I always thought they were designed to give the inventor credit and a kickstart in the market, not a lifelong monopoly.

[jasonlane]

quote:Originally posted by Laukev7: Defender of Canada:
Exactly what I think, I couldn't have said it better than you, Doctor V.

I am a bit confused about the patent thing, though. Are patents like that everywhere, or only in the United States? As I said, I always thought they were designed to give the inventor credit and a kickstart in the market, not a lifelong monopoly.

I second that...

No we have patents in the UK, infact I think we invented the concept, I think.

Anyway, the point is that patents are being very liberally applied these days, when perhaps copyright should be applied instead. When people start patenting business models, genes, DNA and in the case of software broad blanket coverage then you get into a pickle.

[hm_murdock]

Jeff, Jeff... WTF?!?

I don't get it man, how can you support this?

"people who are smart and work hard"

You mean the coders and project leaders that make hourly wages and might not have a job come next layoff season? These guys you seem to worship, these "corporate moguls" are far from smart or hard working. The only thing they work hard on his their tan and their belly.

We have a word for these people: PIGOPOLISTS

These are the people that unfortunately run this great nation today. Our government had four branches when it started. Forget what they taught in school, it had four.

Executive
Judicial
Legislative
The People

Through the 1960s or so, it was

Executive
Judicial
Legislative
The People
Military

The U.S. Military made up for a large part of the government's decision making, because anything they did had to be weight *AGAINST WHAT IT WOULD DO TO THE BENEFITS OF OUR PEOPLE SERVING THE NATION*.

Now what's our political landscape look like?

Executive
Corporate
Legislative
Corporate
Judicial
Corporate

No branch of our government is free from corporate meddling. The courts have become corporate enforcers, Bush is a corporate tool (Powell and Rumsfeld need to beat his pansy ass), and Congress is a joke. Corps buy congressmen cheap.

Hey, we'll buy you dinner for a week if you vote yes for the DMCA.

Selling America one lobby at a time. So, this is the great capitalism you uphold?

What a piece of shit way to live it's created. I have to work TWO GODDAMN JOBS these days to even live. I can barely afford to put gas in my car. Putting food on the table is even harder. Keeping bills balanced is Hell... for the last week, I've been taking showers at a friend's place because we COULDN'T PAY THE WATER BILL this month because WE DIDN'T MAKE ENOUGH BECAUSE OF PAY CUTS AT BOTH MY JOBS. (before anyone mentions my recent tech spending, that's because of my grandma getting me ready for school)

Both companies posted higher earnings and profits, but my pay went down. Yeah, good 'ol ass-sucking, cumguzzling capitalfuckingism.

I, personally can condone taking money from the rich to provide health care. As long as it's not inhibting their ability to survive, then, so be it. If it were to severely cut into their cash-flow, then, that *is* unfair. In society, each person must contribute. Laborers contribute THEIR LIVES to working in factories for low pay and shitty benefits. Unions came along and helped that, but now the corps are outlawing unions, firing people who bring up the subject, and trying to make unionizing illegal in certain industries. YEAH! CAPITALISM HELPING OUT THE LABORERS.

Then there's the middle class, the part of society I'm so lucky to have been born into. We're the ones who have the most to fear. We're the ones who get the pink slips when profits slip .5% and we're the ones who pay the highest taxes in the U.S. and the ones who really get reamed ALL THE MOTHERFUCKING TIME. We're the ones who work for 20 years to send our kids to college so that they can work for 30 years to send their kids to college, so that they, in turn can work for FIFTY YEARS to send their kids to a half-rate tech school. Capitalism at work for me and you, buddy. Those corporate execs lookin' out for us. I guess they don't want us to worry about having too much money. They probably figure we wouldn't know what to do if we had anything like financial stability or such asinine things like feelings of security and safety.

I pay $1.85 a gallon for gas. Why? Because we went to war to free up oil deposits. That means we have more oil! More gasoline! Cheaper gas? NOOOOOOOO! Texaco and Shell and those goat-groping assraiders couldn't ream us then. We have a surplus so PRICES GO EVEN HIGHER! Thanks again to Mr. Bush and the Pigopolists... AND ALL HAIL CAPITALISM!

Oh well, that's all I need to say now.

[ September 04, 2003: Message edited by: Jimmy James is COOL ]

[ September 04, 2003: Message edited by: Jimmy James is COOL ]

[ September 04, 2003: Message edited by: Jimmy James is COOL ]

[jasonlane]

That deserves a standing ovation JJ COOL...

Hear, hear

[rtgwbmsr]

Wow...I didn't even know about this until I wandered onto this site again...

[billy_gates]

this thread has now gone way off topic...
first it was protesting... then i'm a communist... then I was hitler... then capitalism... then America in general.

 

quote:When things turn around, and society is made to serve the businesses, competition is crushed in courts by expensive lawyers, and the right to 'innovate' is bought, sold, traded and fought over, capitalism fails. When new business are crushed even before they begin because one group owns a business method, the principals upon which capitalism was founded is crushed as well.

if one company has so much power that they can eliminate another company in a heart beat... so be it.  I don't seem to know of a real true monopoly in the US.
MS - Apple
Ford - GM
Haliburton - Bectle
etc etc

 

quote:What a piece of shit way to live it's created. I have to work TWO GODDAMN JOBS these days to even live. I can barely afford to put gas in my car. Putting food on the table is even harder. Keeping bills balanced is Hell... for the last week, I've been taking showers at a friend's place because we COULDN'T PAY THE WATER BILL this month because WE DIDN'T MAKE ENOUGH BECAUSE OF PAY CUTS AT BOTH MY JOBS. (before anyone mentions my recent tech spending, that's because of my grandma getting me ready for school)

Both companies posted higher earnings and profits, but my pay went down. Yeah, good 'ol ass-sucking, cumguzzling capitalfuckingism.

Maybe stuff is so expensive because minimum wage is so high now.  In the 60's stuff was cheaper (even when inflation is calculated) Back then minimum wage was lower.  People didn't always request to have health care and a 401k.  Now of course a lot of the money is going to the peeps at the top.  But they are at the top.... is is their job to make themselves richer.  If you have such a big problem with ur emplyers... quit.  Stop working for them.

 

quote:I, personally can condone taking money from the rich to provide health care. As long as it's not inhibting their ability to survive, then, so be it. If it were to severely cut into their cash-flow, then, that *is* unfair. In society, each person must contribute. Laborers contribute THEIR LIVES to working in factories for low pay and shitty benefits. Unions came along and helped that, but now the corps are outlawing unions, firing people who bring up the subject, and trying to make unionizing illegal in certain industries. YEAH! CAPITALISM HELPING OUT THE LABORERS.

I can't condone taking money from the people who have it and getting hald of it lost in uselss beurocracy.  Then giving the other half to people who should get their own.  Unions also bother me, they are designed to give the worker more over time, for doing nothing more.  Small business people don't get paid more over time for no reason.  I don't see why those people should.

 

quote:Then there's the middle class, the part of society I'm so lucky to have been born into. We're the ones who have the most to fear. We're the ones who get the pink slips when profits slip .5% and we're the ones who pay the highest taxes in the U.S. and the ones who really get reamed ALL THE MOTHERFUCKING TIME. We're the ones who work for 20 years to send our kids to college so that they can work for 30 years to send their kids to college, so that they, in turn can work for FIFTY YEARS to send their kids to a half-rate tech school. Capitalism at work for me and you, buddy. Those corporate execs lookin' out for us. I guess they don't want us to worry about having too much money. They probably figure we wouldn't know what to do if we had anything like financial stability or such asinine things like feelings of security and safety.

the middle class does have the highest taxes to money ratio.  Cus we are usually borderline between in the "Rich" tax area and the "middle tax area"  You complain about working to send ur kids to college.  At least you have the opportunity to do so.  The laborers might not have that chance.  Just remember that the rich people were poor at one time. and they did exactly wut u are doing now.

 

quote:I pay $1.85 a gallon for gas. Why? Because we went to war to free up oil deposits. That means we have more oil! More gasoline! Cheaper gas? NOOOOOOOO! Texaco and Shell and those goat-groping assraiders couldn't ream us then. We have a surplus so PRICES GO EVEN HIGHER! Thanks again to Mr. Bush and the Pigopolists... AND ALL HAIL CAPITALISM!

I havn't heard anything about excess or stuff... but the people at the top are profiting and I still have to pay too much for gas.  Lets make it like the 60's 30 cents for premium... 20ft long cadillacs... then I will be happy


Now as I said... I'm done with this thread.
These are my beliefs.  I am a very cynical person with very few morals and the belief that all people are evil.  What else could you expect from me?  I am also from Orange County, CA... as Jimmy put it... "the richest and most wasteful part of the richest and most wasteful country in the world"

and I'm proud of it.  So, I'll continue to drive my SUV and look for a muscle to purchase.

You just can't expect me to be a humanitarian.  I live to make money... then enjoy life.

[hm_murdock]

Re: gas... how can they not use the argument that they're profiting from volume?

270,000,000 americans

typical home has 2 automobiles. some have one, some have none, some have four or five. today, most of those vehicles are gas-guzzlers. people drive vehicles that are too big and too inefficient for them. a single dude doesn't need a suburban to commute to and from work. if he's got twelve other dudes in there with him going to work, that's efficient.  we already talked about this online, though, but I have to say it for the benefit of the forum...

There's a reason that the rest of the country is buying fuel-efficient foreign autos. Our minimum wage is 5.50, not seven something. Our cost of living is lower, but our gas is nearly as high as yours out in CA. We're sick of spending $35 or $40 at the pump.

Something's gotta give, and right now, it's the american auto industry. their seeming inability to produce fuel-efficient cars and trucks is going to hurt them. Guys get Nissan X-Terras (god what an ugly box) and they get nearly 30MPG, while other dudes get Tahoes and get 12MPG.

Who's *really* better off? The guy with the giant fancy pants truck, or the guy who spends around half as much for a better quality vehicle that uses less gas?

I wish I were rich so that I could understand the economics of "wasting money"  

[billy_gates]

quote:Originally posted by Jimmy James is COOL:

Something's gotta give, and right now, it's the american auto industry. their seeming inability to produce fuel-efficient cars and trucks is going to hurt them. Guys get Nissan X-Terras (god what an ugly box) and they get nearly 30MPG, while other dudes get Tahoes and get 12MPG.

I wish I were rich so that I could understand the economics of "wasting money"      

thats the best you could come up with... you really are not familiar with the economics of wasting money (for pleasure).

Your best example was a pickup that got 12mpg... a pickup having a function other than driving.  When I said wasting money (on AIM) I meant a Pontiac GTO or Dodge Charger with a 7, 8, or 9 Litre engine (427, 502, 545 cu in... which is how engines should be rated)  that gets 8-5 mpg.  And has no utility, its a car.  I would be quite happy if the American Auto Industry went by by.  I hate their shitty as cars.  I just hope they don't bring the European companies that they own down with them.  (My family has no American cars, we have British SUV's... but by no means are they efficient... 14mpg, but they are small, smaller than a nissan maxima in all directions except up.  Shorter than the Ferrari Enzo.)

C'mon Jimmy.  I know you can do better next time.


But JJ is right... minimum wage here is 7.60.  Cost of living is INFINITELY higher, but gas is not as big a gouge.  I still wish it were 30 cents for premium though.

[ September 04, 2003: Message edited by: jeffberg: Mac Capitalist ]

[suselinux]

quote:Originally posted by jeffberg: Mac Capitalist:


thats the best you could come up with... you really are not familiar with the economics of wasting money (for pleasure).

Your best example was a pickup that got 12mpg... a pickup having a function other than driving.  When I said wasting money (on AIM) I meant a Pontiac GTO or Dodge Charger with a 7, 8, or 9 Litre engine (427, 502, 545 cu in... which is how engines should be rated)  that gets 8-5 mpg.  And has no utility, its a car.  I would be quite happy if the American Auto Industry went by by.  I hate their shitty as cars.  I just hope they don't bring the European companies that they own down with them.  (My family has no American cars, we have British SUV's... but by no means are they efficient... 14mpg, but they are small, smaller than a nissan maxima in all directions except up.  Shorter than the Ferrari Enzo.)

C'mon Jimmy.  I know you can do better next time.


But JJ is right... minimum wage here is 7.60.  Cost of living is INFINITELY higher, but gas is not as big a gouge.  I still wish it were 30 cents for premium though.

[ September 04, 2003: Message edited by: jeffberg: Mac Capitalist ]

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