Windows Sucks

[piratePenguin]

will the community hold as strong if GNU/Linux starts dominating the IT world?
I, for one, believe it will.

I just hope it does. But it'd be very possible for some frickin' crap company to make a relatively-crap GNU/Linux distro if/when MS starts falling, market it well, charge lots for it, ship with non-free software, and fucking own the show. Such a distro probably wouldn't have a very good community. Let's just hope it doesn't happen.

I'd rather see people go to Ubuntu than the likes of SuSE. Ubuntu is a great distro, and has a fecking great community. In fact I'd say things probably will go Ubuntu-direction. And I'd love if they did.

I hope also that if the masses started using GNU/Linux, the manufacturers would free all their drivers, and the software companies would make more of their software free. If they don't, it could be a disaster freedom-wise. And that would damage the community slightly.

Right now, GNU/Linux users are safer on the net than they might ever be. But I can imagine alot of programmers employed to fix vulernabilities fast if GNU/Linux was to replace Windows.
And if GNU/Linux was the standard OS, it wouldn't be so hard to get a job as a programmer where you don't need to make non-free software. Perhaps there is hope for me in the future.....

There'd be alot of investment going into whatever GNU/Linux distro.


EDIT: If GNU/Linux replaced Windows, it would probably be much less a community thing actually. Most of the programmers would be working in house.

[Aloone_Jonez]

piratePenguin,
I agree with most of what you've said apart from a few things.  

Are you sure? Because I think you do:

"Removal of infections would be easier since the virus wouldn't have the benefit of root permissions" There's at least one benefit of the masses switching from Windows to GNU/Linux right there. Thanks!

Well when I use Windows XP I use a limeted user account so the programs don't have root permissions.

But then why are there so many unstable Windows systems?

And there're aren't unstable Linux systems? Holly fuck Redhat Linux kernel panicked more than Windows XP locked up.

I dunno what to say about all your driver problems Aloone except that GNU/Linux doesn't get enough manufacturer support. And of course you already knew that.
Anyhow, what GFX card do you have? ATi/nVidia? ATi's drivers are suposadly shit. I have an nVidia card, and never had any problems back when I used nVidia's drivers.
Give them GNU/Linux, they'll never be able to repay you enough for giving them such a great headstart

A shitty on board pro-savage DDR, and I did isntall the correct driver I found on the internet, as well as the default one.

[piratePenguin]

Well when I use Windows XP I use a limeted user account so the programs don't have root permissions.

Well, compare MS's attitude to the root a/c to that of the typical GNU/Linux distro. A shitty posting on a shitty site that nobody reads is NOT ENOUGH!
I wonder has MS learned, and are they gonna put a guest a/c onto the default config of Longhorn. I can almost hear the cries of helpless Windows users "wwhhyyy is there two users? There's only one of me!".

EDIT: They'll think they're pure genius when they manage to delete the guest a/c :p

And there're aren't unstable Linux systems? Holly fuck Redhat Linux kernel panicked more than Windows XP locked up.

In which case "Redhat Linux" is shit. Simple. Get another distro, it's not like they're limited.
So you like Vector Linux, use that rather than "Redhat Linux". And there, you've got yourself a stable and secure GNU/Linux system.

"Wouldn't it be nice if we could make our own Windows distributions?" (I'm not saying anyone said that, although someone has said something about Widows distros here in one thread I was posting in (probably the "muzzy, why does windows rule?" one), use yer imagination :p) Anyhow, you can't do such a thing on Windows. If it offered the same freedom, or should I say, if it offered less RESTRICTIONS, you would be able to do that (I don't think, other than the restrictions, there's much else to prevent it being done (like it's not a technical thing), but I dunno). But it doesn't, whereas GNU/Linux does, and now you can get all sorts of GNU/Linux distros. GNU/Linux has less of the restrictions that DO NOT make the system any better.

A shitty on board pro-savage DDR, and I did isntall the correct driver I found on the internet, as well as the default one.

OK so Via don't give a fuck about GNU/Linux. I'll make note of that, and add them to my boycott list

[Aloone_Jonez]

Well, compare MS's attitude to the root a/c to that of the typical GNU/Linux distro. A shitty posting on a shitty site that nobody reads is NOT ENOUGH!
I wonder has MS learned, and are they gonna put a guest a/c onto the default config of Longhorn. I can almost hear the cries of helpless Windows users "wwhhyyy is there two users? There's only one of me!".

Didn't you say slackware only makes a root account by default. I agree it's a bit differant as it's not aimed at newbs like Windows is, but still.

In which case "Redhat Linux" is shit. Simple. Get another distro, it's not like they're limited.
So you like Vector Linux, use that rather than "Redhat Linux". And there, you've got yourself a stable and secure GNU/Linux system.

That's why I don't use Redhat and use Vector Linux instead. My point was there are unstable Linuxs systems as they're unstable Windows systemsm. I found both systems very stable which is good.

"Wouldn't it be nice if we could make our own Windows distributions?" (I'm not saying anyone said that, although someone has said something about Widows distros here in one thread I was posting in (probably the "muzzy, why does windows rule?" one), use yer imagination :p) Anyhow, you can't do such a thing on Windows. If it offered the same freedom, or should I say, if it offered less RESTRICTIONS, you would be able to do that (I don't think, other than the restrictions, there's much else to prevent it being done (like it's not a technical thing), but I dunno). But it doesn't, whereas GNU/Linux does, and now you can get all sorts of GNU/Linux distros. GNU/Linux has less of the pointless restrictions that DO NOT make the system any better.

I agree but you can always just download warez Windows.  

OK so Via don't give a fuck about GNU/Linux. I'll make note of that, and add them to my boycott list

It's not a very good card but it more than suits my needs.

[piratePenguin]

Didn't you say slackware only makes a root account by default. I agree it's a bit differant as it's not aimed at newbs like Windows is, but still.

If the Slackware installer created an un-privilaged user a/c, that would make it more user-friendly. Slackware aims to be as user-UNfriendly as possible, so creating an un-privilaged a/c automatically would be a bad thing. In fact, I can't even remember if you need to reboot to use 'useradd' to add a user to the install, you mightn't, you could probably 'chroot' into the system if it didn't do so already. Or you could edit /etc/passwd manually (although probably without shadow unless you 'chroot' + 'passwd'). And there ya go!

there are unstable Linuxs systems as they're unstable Windows systemsm.

Yes yea but like they're not near as frequent...
In fact, I should've mentioned this earlier, I had a free class today in the computer room, so I decided to turn on the computer, out of curiosity. I waited. And waited. And eventually Windows 2000 (I think it was 2000. Doubt it was '98. But I don't remember. It COULDN'T have been 98) loaded, and I logged in (username: "student39" (that's the computer number that I was on, not the student number heh), password: "2logon" (same pass for all the a/c's lol)), and soon the desktop loaded up. I clicked on the start menu and it wouldn't popup for like the 30secs I waited, so I held down the power button and that was the end of my session on Windows.
Friend next to me said "you're supposed to wait" :thumbup:
Is this 1965 or what? (damn! I should've taut of that at the time )

I agree but you can always just download warez Windows.  

Or you can use (read: support) Free Software.

[xyle_one]

I wouldn't have thought that because:
Windows is very n00b-friendly. And it's good at being n00b-friendly of all things.
It's much more n00b-friendly than almost all GNU/Linux distros, except the ones targeted at n00bs themselves (and I'd say it'd still be a tough one).
Kudos to MS. For their software is friendly to (the millions of) n00bs.

If the first computer I got had Slackware on it rather than Windows 95, I probably wouldn't have ever bothered with the computer at all. Although if it was Ubuntu (which didn't exist at the time but what the hell), I probably would've used it. And as soon as I knew how to use it, I probably would have learned all about the command-line and then more advanced stuff. And I probably would be on Slackware in no-time.
The leaning-curves are beautiful on GNU/Linux, especially for the curious ones, and also for the not-so-curious ones.

I thought that Fedora was quite noob friendly. As was Mandrake. I even did a write up on mandrake at promote-opensource a long time ago in relation to ease of use for the average user.

Definetly!
I'd say it wouldn't be too hard for a Slackware user (who has never used Windows before) to migrate to Windows.
Even though they're used to doing things "the hard way", they'd figure the easy way out just as easy as the n00bs would.
Obviously they wouldn't feel at home. For Windows was not developed with them-kinda-people inmind (and yes, I mean it).
My person experience with Windows was not pretty.

I do not like MS's software. I do not like MS's evil business practices. I do not like MS's incredible control. I do not like the fucking insane amount of support MS gets (from OEMs, manufacturers, etc.) when there are much better alternatives out there. And I definetly do not like MS's FUD (especially when people buy it).

They are evil bastards who do NOT deserve my support.
And buying their products IS supporting them, just like using their products is.

On the other hand, I fucking love the GNU philosophy.
It is right. It is good. It is honourable. It makes sense.
It is a step forward for mankind.
IT deserves my support, and it deserves more support than the world could possibly supply (and it isn't supplyin', BTW).

I will have to agree with you there. They are an evil business. So is walmart, best-buy, nestle, any large corporation really. They are all doing what they can to dominate their markets and maybe branch into other ones. They want the biggest slice of the pie.

If that's what you call freedom, seems a little shallow to me. You are damn right to but "free" in quotation marks though.
That's interesting - explain please.

I do not know a single designer who knows the software. Image compression out of GIMP is poor. Layer groups, non-destructive editing tools, native CMYK support, on and on. Unless all this has been added in recent versions. And then, the interface is non-intuituve and clumsy. I do not mind paying the price for Adobes software. And I will happily pay the upgrade fees.

How in the hell isn't it a big deal?
Do you have computers on-show kinda thing? Because if you do, you could put Ubuntu or something decent on it, and tell the customers a little about GNU/Linux. Then give them the CHOICE between Windows and Ubuntu. The choice that so many of them never got...

It isn't a big deal because we can get our work done just fine using windows. We don't have computers on show. We have designers getting ads and brochures to print, web designers and developers working on layouts and applications, and there is no reason to use Linux. None at all.

[piratePenguin]

Image compression out of GIMP is poor. Layer groups, non-destructive editing tools, native CMYK support, on and on. Unless all this has been added in recent versions. And then, the interface is non-intuituve and clumsy.

Oh.. I'll have to look into some of that. I heard about it's CMYK issues, they were fixed apparantly (but I dunno, it could still have problems).
At first I couldn't get around The GIMP's interface. But now I can, and I like it.
There used to be a script here that "hacked the GIMP's UI so it looked like photoshops" (stole it from a different forum). Although, IIRC, it still had the multiple windows, which I don't find that annoying, anymore.

there is no reason to use Linux. None at all.

Oh I see. Well.. That's a shame :o

[xyle_one]

I'll use it for Apache, MySQL, and PHP, but my mac handles that just fine.

[piratePenguin]

you are Free to give your favorite GNU/Linux distro to your friends

Yes, very important, the freedom to help your neighbor.


If anybody hated MS enough, they would NOT give their money to MS. Even if they "like" Windows or the Xbox (360, even) or whatever, or if it's not their choice, or if they think that there's no need to go switching to the perhaps better (or worse) alternatives.
Doing so is funding MS, and good-as supporting their evil business practices and such. For to carry out them evil business practices, to pay for their marketing et cetera, they need money.

[Jenda]

Yes, very important, the freedom to help your neighbor.


If anybody hated MS enough, they would NOT give their money to MS. Even if they "like" Windows or the Xbox (360, even) or whatever, or if it's not their choice, or if they think that there's no need to go switching to the perhaps better (or worse) alternatives.
Doing so is funding MS, and good-as supporting their evil business practices and such. For to carry out them evil business practices, to pay for their marketing et cetera, they need money.

 So is using a warez copy of w98 evil? Apart from being stupid, that is...

[Aloone_Jonez]

I don't think he meant that.

Anyway spreading warez Windows boosts the number of Windows users so Microsoft still benefits indirectly.

[piratePenguin]

I don't think he meant that.

Anyway spreading warez Windows boosts the number of Windows users so Microsoft still benefits indirectly.

Exactly.
And I did mean that Jenda/Aloone

Using warez MS products is far better, than paying for them IMO.
MS won't get your money. But in a way you are still supporting them as Aloone said.
Although I'd much rather see more people use alternatives to MS software than see them use warez MS software, and I'd much rather see them use warez MS software than use legit MS software.

You should listen to the first half hour or so of http://wm-eddie.info/rms.html if you've got time to burn. RMS touches on why "piracy" is better than legit non-free-software (and he's fecking funny the way he does it too), at least in the share-with-your-neighbour way.
He said something like this but in far better language and that of course:

If your friend asked you for a copy of X (where X is some non-free software), you should give him a copy of X regardless of what the licence says.
We can assume that your friend has treated you decently, unlike the vendors of X who are denying you your freedom et cetera

Just look at my alias, piratePenguin
(even though there's no pirate software on my system (there's loads of pirated music) and there likely will never be. That name came to me as a fluke and I couldn't resist.


Anyhow, FAR better than pirating MS software (which is still benefiting MS, as Aloone said) is to switch to a free/otherwise alternative.
And FAR better than giving MS your money for a ligit copy of Windows is to take it off a friend/the internet for a "pirate" version, in which case MS won't get your money, but you're still supporting them.
Paying for MS software, while bashing MS, I just don't get it.

To answer your question Jenda, using a warez version of win98 beats the shite outta paying MS for a legit version of Win98 (for they would have your money!).

[Aloone_Jonez]

My PC came with shitty MS works so I was contemplating getting hold of warez MS office 2000 (fuck paying for it) then discovered OpenOffice so I downloaded it and I was pleasantly suprised.

I agree:
warez > paying < free software

Edit:
Only where MS software is concerned.

[KernelPanic]

I completely disagree with that.
If you are dreaming of an OSS utopia, which RMS seems to be, then you will expect users and other developers/corportations to honour the GPL - your licence of choice.
But at the same time he says it's fine to disregard the terms of use and licences regarding proprietary software?

Bullshit.
Talk about being a balls-out hypocrite...



Note: I havn't listened to the article, so if i'm slating RMS it is on merit of what piratePenguin posted. Time for bed.

[piratePenguin]

warez > paying < free software

That's a better way of putting it