Author Topic: The Vandalisation of Windows  (Read 8945 times)

Aloone_Jonez

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Re: The Vandalisation of Windows
« Reply #15 on: 6 December 2005, 23:46 »
Quote from: piratePenguin
I think I see what you mean (literally).

I knew about this, now try and see if KOffice will interoperate with OpenOffice or ABIWord in this manner?

Quote from: piratePenguin
I don't have OpenOffice so I don't know. Although, I can tell you can't copy from the GIMP into Krita (IMO Krita is shit anyhow. It's unstable and I prefer the GIMP's interface.

UNIX might be able to share data but Windows goes one step further and shares objects - a big advantage.

Quote from: piratePenguin
Everyone in the DOS world uses the same clipboard and stuff, I would guess.

Each app has its own clipboard but there were ways to get round this and no it wasn't pretty. I'm sorry I shouldn't have mentioned DOS here.

Quote from: piratePenguin
No, only text in Inkscape gets to the outside world, because it uses it's own internal clipboard.

I think the problem might be due to the fact that the Linux clipboard might not support vector formats, I don't know.

Quote from: piratePenguin
Could you do that easilly (i.e. almost-naturally) if both Inkscape and Abiword were made primarally for Windows (and made use of all it's API/stuff)?

Certainly yes.

Quote from: piratePenguin
Maybe. But KOffice is many different binaries (they share some core libraries) just like MS Office.

I can do exactly the same with Corel Draw and Word even though they don't share the same binaries.

Quote from: piratePenguin
Hopefully not too-frustrating. Otherwise, I could put you in contact with a good shrink.

It's very frustrating when you want to work with Inkscape and ABI Word, it it too much to ask to be able to draw something in a drawing program, then past it into a word processor and click on it to edit and adjust it?

You can convert it to a raster format, but that's a pain in the arse, the print quality is shit, you can't resize with out seeing the pixels and to modify the graphic you need to go back into Inkscape and re-export it to a raster, then re-import it to ABI Word.

Quote from: piratePenguin
Hopefully not too-frustrating. Otherwise, I could put you in contact with a good shrink.

LOL - a typical zealot response, so it's the user's fault now for the OS's shortcommings. :rolleyes:

These issues still exist and calling the user stupid for noticing and being botherd about them is just plain childish.

Quote from: piratePenguin
How many people find Windows stability (I've had alot of issues with Windows' stability.

At work the admin have set the screensaver to lock the system and prompt for a password, I got round this annoying feature by setting the screensaver delay to 9999 miniutes (just under a week), I went on holiday for a couple of weeks and forgot to turn it off, when I came back it was still going, no BSOD, I just moved the mouse and it prompted me for the password.

Quote from: piratePenguin
Microsoft did all the important-for selling things first. I think that could partly-explain why Windows sucks so bad. My Windows experience is haunted by stability

I've already told you how to fix 99% of those issues.

Quote from: piratePenguin
If lack of DDE/OLE haunts you, get help.


OLE/DDE are very important tools in the office, they enable you to easilly create documents using many peices of software. OpenOffice and KOffice have implemented these features for themselves by using their own libraries and standards, when they really should've been part of the OS in the first place, hence they can't interoperate with each other.
This is not a Windows help forum, however please do feel free to sign up and agree or disagree with our views on Microsoft.

Oh and FUCKMicrosoft! :fu:

adiment

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Re: The Vandalisation of Windows
« Reply #16 on: 6 December 2005, 23:46 »
Quote from: piratePenguin
The Windows firewall doesn't compete with iptables. You can barely configure it. Firewalls are important, and every operating system connected to a network should have a very fucking good one. Especially Windows. Is there something I'm missing about the Windows firewall or is it really just plain shit?


it's just plain shit. ;)

piratePenguin

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Re: The Vandalisation of Windows
« Reply #17 on: 11 December 2005, 01:44 »
Quote from: Aloone_Jonez

These issues still exist and calling the user stupid for noticing and being botherd about them is just plain childish.
Where did I say you were stupid? I was just making a joke, sheez.
Quote

At work the admin have set the screensaver to lock the system and prompt for a password, I got round this annoying feature by setting the screensaver delay to 9999 miniutes (just under a week), I went on holiday for a couple of weeks and forgot to turn it off, when I came back it was still going, no BSOD, I just moved the mouse and it prompted me for the password.
What? Is this news? Oh wait, we're talking about Windows, I guess it is.
Quote

OLE/DDE are very important tools in the office, they enable you to easilly create documents using many peices of software. OpenOffice and KOffice have implemented these features for themselves by using their own libraries and standards, when they really should've been part of the OS in the first place, hence they can't interoperate with each other.
Can I really make a picure in paint, paste it into Word, and edit it inside word using the paint interface? I guess that would be pretty cool.

Windows cannot do this on 256MB RAM. And to think that my system is still running responsive as ever with all that stuff open.. I mean, here, I just drew a gradient in GIMP (you'll notice the time in the clock is the same), not a hitch. A look at the System Monitor. Is that two/three/FOUR FUCKING times more memory being used than physical RAM available? How the FUCK is it still so fucking responsive. I didn't close anything between then and now, and I'd hardley know KDevelop, the GIMP, Inkscape, KWord, amaroK, the System Monitor, and Gnome Terminal are running but for the cluttered taskbar (image.
« Last Edit: 11 December 2005, 01:51 by piratePenguin »
"What you share with the world is what it keeps of you."
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a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante
Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well.

worker201

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Re: The Vandalisation of Windows
« Reply #18 on: 11 December 2005, 02:08 »
I thought it had been universally accepted that Windows memory management was shit.  Making it extremely limiting for certain types of applications, graphics being a major one.  As far as the sort of person who wants to use MSPaint to make a Word document goes, well real programs and tough operating systems just aren't necessary.

By the way, object linking and embedding (OLE), which makes that possible, is one of the things that makes Windows so insecure.  A virus can propogate from Outlook to Excel to Word to Powerpoint and back to Outlook without ever leaving your inbox.  It's also a major cause of office suite bloat - an interoperability of a feature set that no one in their right mind would ever use.  Plus, having each task centrally defined and apportioned, rather than peripherally, makes MSOffice unmodular and inefficient memory users.  I'm glad that Linux doesn't have this kind of crap.

Aloone_Jonez

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Re: The Vandalisation of Windows
« Reply #19 on: 11 December 2005, 17:24 »
Quote from: piratePenguin
Can I really make a picure in paint, paste it into Word, and edit it inside word using the paint interface? I guess that would be pretty cool.

This works in Word but I don't have Word at home so I'll show you with WordPad and MS Paint and even OpenOffice.

You can paste from MS Paint to WordPad:
http://www.illhostit.com/files/9010837856089104/OLE1.PNG

Click on it and up pops a MS Paint tool bar allowing you to edit the image:
http://www.illhostit.com/files/3812224035403325/OLE2.PNG

Look you can even insert OpenOffice Drawings into WordPad!
http://www.illhostit.com/files/8067180888122247/OLE3.PNG

Interestingly when I edited a MS Paint picture which I'd inserted into OpenOffice it MS Paint appeared in a new Window. Perhapps the OO developers didn't like the idea of other application's tool bars being placed over thier own because it doesn't always look too pretty (especially when the other program has been designed by someone else). Notice in my previous example how the OO toolbar only partially covers WordPad's?
Quote from: piratePenguin
Windows cannot do this on 256MB RAM. And to think that my system is still running responsive as ever with all that stuff open.. I mean, here, I just drew a gradient in GIMP (you'll notice the time in the clock is the same), not a hitch. A look at the System Monitor. Is that two/three/FOUR FUCKING times more memory being used than physical RAM available? How the FUCK is it still so fucking responsive. I didn't close anything between then and now, and I'd hardley know KDevelop, the GIMP, Inkscape, KWord, amaroK, the System Monitor, and Gnome Terminal are running but for the cluttered taskbar (image.


I know Windows is shit at memory management but if you can't see that OLE and DDE are advantages then I can put you in contact with a good shrink. :p
This is not a Windows help forum, however please do feel free to sign up and agree or disagree with our views on Microsoft.

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hm_murdock

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Re: The Vandalisation of Windows
« Reply #20 on: 11 December 2005, 18:09 »
Actually, the memory management in Windows NT isn't "bad". It's the fact that modern programmers are extremely lazy, cranking out shoddy code with tons of bloat, broken code, and all-round wastefulness. One huge reason that the system becomes so unstable is that this same level of piss-poor quality typically is given to hardware drivers as well. OEMs try to get their driver programmers, who have probably never made anything but Java chat programs and 3D games to add crap to a simple driver for a sound card that plugs into 250MB worth of crap "home entertainment" software that came with the sound card. What happens? ALL OF IT IS GARBAGE AND IT CRASHES THE SYSTEM.

These same drivers are often times greedy with memory allocation for the hardware. But then, there's not a single piece of software that exists nowadays that isn't greedy. The problem I see is that it's likely that the suits got it in their head, that idea that "computers are going so fast that programs will never catch up," so they had their boys just rape the shit out of the code. Who gives a blue fuck if it's efficient or stable? The computer is fast and smart enough to make it run well.

Garbage.

How do I know that this is the case? I was there for Mac OS 8's release. I remember when it was a BIG DEAL that it would be more stable... and it was... but then, it had simply become easier to spot the shitty apps. Classic Mac had its share of shit programs, mostly anything that was a piss poor port of a Windows app, like AIM, Yahoo, or even a lot of games. Quite a bit of native software was just plain ass, as well. Drivers for hardware, many times would knock heads with some other extension or control panel. Why? LAZINESS.

I know it's easy to blame MS for all the problems, but you really need to sit back and think for a moment... "When I run better quality software, Windows doesn't fuck up." Now, think about the reason for that. Is it possible that maybe Windows isn't as bad as you like to bitch about? Is there even the most remote possibility that maybe it doesn't suck? Could you ever even conceptualize that Windows isn't "shit"?

Somehow I doubt it.
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dmcfarland

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Re: The Vandalisation of Windows
« Reply #21 on: 11 December 2005, 23:00 »
No I cant.
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worker201

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Re: The Vandalisation of Windows
« Reply #22 on: 12 December 2005, 00:59 »
As an avid user of Adobe Illustrator, I have used it extensively in OSX and Windows (95, 98, and XP).  The memory management issues are much worse in Windows.  Unless Adobe has been pulling some fucked up shit, this isn't their fault.  With no other applications running, this kinda points to Windows as the culprit.  Especially when I boot up Linux and run something even more memory intensive than a huge Illustrator file, and have no problems whatsoever on the same machine.  If I had to guess, based on what I have seen, the problem is that Windows allots itself too much memory, and is reluctant to give it up to other programs.  Linux, I believe doesn't allow enough, which makes some basic apps seem slow, and makes your desktop not refresh as often as you might like.  

I'm sure Microsoft chose to have Windows manage memory the way they did for a reason.  But I'm saying that this reason is often inhibitive to hardcore work.

piratePenguin

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Re: The Vandalisation of Windows
« Reply #23 on: 12 December 2005, 02:07 »
Quote from: Aloone_Jonez
This works in Word but I don't have Word at home so I'll show you with WordPad and MS Paint and even OpenOffice.

You can paste from MS Paint to WordPad:
http://www.illhostit.com/files/9010837856089104/OLE1.PNG

Click on it and up pops a MS Paint tool bar allowing you to edit the image:
http://www.illhostit.com/files/3812224035403325/OLE2.PNG

Look you can even insert OpenOffice Drawings into WordPad!
http://www.illhostit.com/files/8067180888122247/OLE3.PNG
Feck that is cool. I wonder is anyone working on bringing this to GNU/Linux...
"What you share with the world is what it keeps of you."
 - Noah And The Whale: Give a little love



a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante
Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well.

dmcfarland

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Re: The Vandalisation of Windows
« Reply #24 on: 12 December 2005, 02:19 »
Windows XP access swap file memory instead of RAM. I dont know if thats normal for OS's to do. Its slows the system down a lot. I can  load a lot more stuff up on  linux than I can on Windows
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MarathoN

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Re: The Vandalisation of Windows
« Reply #25 on: 12 December 2005, 18:37 »
Hah, well you can minimise swap file usage on Windows 2000, the memory management on XP sucks.


Aloone_Jonez

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Re: The Vandalisation of Windows
« Reply #26 on: 12 December 2005, 22:12 »
I don't know about XP, I can't see why MS would make memory management worse, I know XP uses more RAM than Windows 2000 but it seems to be ok when you disable all the unnesacery services.

I was very impresed with Windows 2000's memory management today at work. I was doing my colege work in OpenOffice while Adobe searched a directory full of very large .pdfs. The system remained very responsive despite the fact that Acrobat reader was using up nearly 100% of the CPU and 376.38MB allocated when there was only  256MB of physical memory.

http://www.illhostit.com/files/1009397511819603/mem%20usage.jpg

One thing I did notice is that although switching between tasks was quite fast using alt+tab, it took ages to maximise a minimised program, I think I've heard about this problem before though.
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WMD

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Re: The Vandalisation of Windows
« Reply #27 on: 12 December 2005, 22:30 »
Funny how pretty much every thread in here turns into Windows vs. Linux on issues that weren't even the case when the thread started.
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piratePenguin

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Re: The Vandalisation of Windows
« Reply #28 on: 13 December 2005, 18:12 »
Quote from: Aloone_Jonez

One thing I did notice is that although switching between tasks was quite fast using alt+tab, it took ages to maximise a minimised program, I think I've heard about this problem before though.
Muzzy mentioned this before. Whenever you minimize some window some info. is erased, and when you ALT+TAB it isn't. It's better keeping it, 'cause you'll need it again.
Something like that.
"What you share with the world is what it keeps of you."
 - Noah And The Whale: Give a little love



a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante
Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well.

dmcfarland

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Re: The Vandalisation of Windows
« Reply #29 on: 13 December 2005, 19:52 »
Windows could be a good OS, but it isnt. Microshaft bloats it up with stupid needless bells and whistles. It also manages memory like shit. I wouldnt run Windows with less than 512 Megs. You might as well suck eggs with anything below that. Windows isnt going to get until there is some competition to Microshaft.
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